Rank the 12 schools in value to the new league

[whiteandblue77]

Doesn't this sort of settle it, then. Why add more than Butler, Creighton & Xavier? If you're not getting added exposure from Dayton or St. Louis, why add them?

Butler
Creighton
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
Seton Hall
St. John's
Villanova
Xavier

All are national or traditional basketball name brands. Most are in very large markets. The addition of Butler adds the Indiana recruits to the NY/NJ, Chicago, Philly and DC areas. The 3 added teams sell out arenas and are no stranger to the national attention that a major basketball conference would bring.

This would be more money for the 7 while they throw a knockout punch to two of their conference competitors (A10 & MVC). Still say add Dayton and SLU but the other 3 are more compelling. I think at the same time Gonzaga should just go independent and work out extensive, contracted scheduling agreements with the Big Priest ala Notre Dame and the ACC in Football.

[admin]

Here are the current AP rankings of C7+ potential teams:

9 Gonzaga
13 Creighton
14 Butler
19 Georgetown
26 VCU
29 Marquette

[ChiFlyer]

I really don't think current rankings mean a thing. XU is having a down year, and it should not mean a thing about their candidacy. 5 or 10 year trends are what matter.

[admin]

I really don't think current rankings mean a thing. XU is having a down year, and it should not mean a thing about their candidacy. 5 or 10 year trends are what matter.

I absolutely agree, but I think it's important for us Big East people to recognize that right now the strength of the league is not necessarily with us but with the teams that might join us.

[ChiFlyer]

I really don't think current rankings mean a thing. XU is having a down year, and it should not mean a thing about their candidacy. 5 or 10 year trends are what matter.

I absolutely agree, but I think it's important for us Big East people to recognize that right now the strength of the league is not necessarily with us but with the teams that might join us.

I see your point, I was reacting to it because on the UD board, posters are using this years RPI numbers to make the case that the BE7 schools should want to joint the A-10. Its idiotic on a number of different levels. Everyone is getting invested emotionally and people are failing to see the forest through the trees. But that's what makes it kinda fun!

[GumbyDamnit!]

I really don't think current rankings mean a thing. XU is having a down year, and it should not mean a thing about their candidacy. 5 or 10 year trends are what matter.

I absolutely agree, but I think it's important for us Big East people to recognize that right now the strength of the league is not necessarily with us but with the teams that might join us.

I don't agree with your assessment Admin. With all due respect to what are great basketball schools--especially Butler and Xavier--but they need us more than we need them. I would not consider them the "strength" of the league. Creighton may be ranked higher than Xavier, Nova, G'Town Marquette and Butler and have a better RPI but that means squat to me on whether or not we should add them. Right now Stephen S. Austin has a higher RPI than : Kentucky, Wisconsin, V'Nova, G'Town, GA Tech, VA, Wake, Vandy, Tennessee, Marq, & Xavier. Let's not send any reps down to TX any time soon though. I think Butler and Xavier are perfect additions. After that, you need to really think this through. In 2 years Creighton could fall off the face of the baseketball scene. They have won exactly 1 game in the NCAA's in the past decade. Looking at them a little more closely I like what they bring to the table: strong fan base, good facilities, commitment to BB success, similar in size and mission to Nova and GT'n, a new market for the league, etc. But RPI and rank in 2013 means less than nothing to me. If the league starts in 2015, I would expect that between now and then Creighton would have a lot of work to do reloading to be in the top half of the league. But I would expect G'Town, Nova, Marq, Xavier, Butler (and probably Lavin and SJU by then) to be very formidable because of a history of achievement. If Creighton had a NCAA record like a Butler, Gozaga or Xavier I would probably think differently. Just being honest here...

[GT - Ray]

In 2 years, Creighton may fall off the end of the earth without this league. How many sweet 16's do they have ever? How many NCAA tournament wins in the last 20 years?

[CFA Jay]

In 2 years, Creighton may fall off the end of the earth without this league.

hmmmm...not sure that is true.

[Edrick]

With all due respect to what are great basketball schools--especially Butler and Xavier--but they need us more than we need them. I would not consider them the "strength" of the league.

This is Butler's performance in the Top 25 polls (high point and week) in recent years....

06/07: Wk 12 #11
07/08: Wk 16 #8
08/09: Wk 13 #11
09/10: Final #2
10/11: Final #2
11/12: Never appeared in Top 25
12/13: Wk 14 #14 (thus far)

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Would you like me to do Xavier? C7?

#strength

[ChiFlyer]

I guess my perception of Creighton and the MVC is much higher than it really is. I thought the MVC was much stronger. Creighton is a big fish in a small pond.

Here is a comparison of the A-10 & MVC over the last 5 years and 10 years. (I am throwing in the Big East as well. Wow, that is a tough league.) My point of showing this is that the teams coming from weak leagues will struggle to have any success during the grind of conference play. When you are playing an NCAA team once a week, its really hard to win consistently

10 Years
MVC A-10 BE
Bids 19 28 73
Tourney Win % 34% 45% 62%
Total Games 29 51 182
Wins 10 23 112


5 Years
MVC A-10 BE
Bids 6 16 43
Tourney Win % 33% 47% 60%
Total Games 9 30 105
Wins 3 14 63


The MVC is not nearly as strong as the A-10. Creighton is clearly the top of the MVC, but the conference only has 3 tourney wins in the last 5 years. The Big East 63 wins. The A-10 is no where near the Big East, but at 14 wins that means they are getting a team or two out of the first weekend consistently.

Tourney wins over the last 5 years

A-10 14
Big East 63
CAA 8
CUSA 7
Horizon 12 (10 are from Butler over 2 tourneys.)
MVC 3
MW 8
WAC 0
WCC 9


My point is that Creighton is perceived to be better on the court than UD and SLU. There is no evidence to suggest that, and they are playing against inferior competition. Creighton brings great fans and facilities, similar to SLU and UD.


I pulled all the data of off wiki. I have the numbers for the A-10, Big East, CAA, CUSA, Horizon, MVC, MW, WAC, & WCC. Obviously teams have moved conferences.... especially from CUSA to the Big East. If anyone wants the spreadsheet let me know. Butler has given the Horizon 67% win % in the tourney over the last 5 years.

Formatting is whacked, but you can still see the numbers comparing the three conferences.