Big East Awards

[Trifecta]

The Big East Conference was made at Madison Square Garden. No need to reference the MVC - it’s like comparing apples to anything not as good as an apple.

So it's all about the venue? So beating SJU at MSG is a better win than beating SJU at Carneseca?

Kansas has 17 regular-season titles in the 2000s and 8 tournament titles I believe. Dominance either way, but I'm sure most folks don't remember the occasional Mizzou or Iowa St. tournament titles like they do the sustained regular-season excellence.

In all seriousness, people on both sides of the argument will never meet in the middle and I'm good with that. I've just always found it odd that the old guard clings on to these constructs that other conferences do not. But traditions are traditions for a reason.

[Hall2012]

So I guess based on the "regular season champ" logic, getting the #1 overall seed for the NCAA Tournament is a bigger accomplishment than winning it.

Reality regarding the Big East Tournament is that we take great pride in the old BET being widely considered the far and away #1 conference tournament in the country and the #2 college basketball event in the country behind the NCAA Tournament. It's not just about the auto bid (which is rarely relevant), it's about the spectacle. We may not have the overall league quality anymore to maintain the #2 prestige ranking, but we still have the history and the Garden and we love to make this event into everything we can. If SHU were to run the bracket at MSG this week, all the failures of this regular season would instantly be forgiven and forgotten.

[outlawwales23]

Nova is the champ because everyone agreed on the metrics.

It was pretty weak of Nova to be the first team to cancel a game back in December when everyone was healthy and then not actually make any effort to make up games later in the year, and it was pretty weak of the conference to start out with extra time built in late in the year but not actually encourage anyone to use it to get games in. And it's almost a certainty that if Jay Wright had said "gee, we'd sure like to have a chance to makeup these games" then the conference would have bent over backwards to do it. But he clearly wanted to no part of going to UConn, and the conference wouldn't want to make him uncomfortable.

It's amazing that Creighton actually got every single game in and is the only team in the conference to do so. Hopefully that pays off with Creighton having had more games to be ready to go in NY and the NCAAT instead of being more worn out. If X beats Butler it'll be interesting to see how the freshest team/team that played the least vs. the team that played the most goes.

On the subject of the thread, BE Awards, POY SHOULD be between Gillespie and Zegarowksi. Bouknight should not even be eligible given he missed half of his team's conference games. He's the most talented individual and likely the highest draft pick -- but not the POY in conference this year. I'd give it to Zegarowksi because he can single-handedly change the trajectory of games way more than Gillespie seems to ever do.

Bishop should seriously be given strong consideration as most improved. He arguably should have been considered for one of the all conference teams with his consistency and numbers against all other bigs over the course of the season. He arguably outplayed opposing bigs in virtually every conference game, as an "undersized" five and was just consistent all year.

And Ballock should have been on one of the teams, too. He's the best shooter in the conference, but he is also so valuable from a passing and spacing point of view that it's borderline criminal to not put him on any of the teams.

[XUFan09]

So I guess based on the "regular season champ" logic, getting the #1 overall seed for the NCAA Tournament is a bigger accomplishment than winning it.

Reality regarding the Big East Tournament is that we take great pride in the old BET being widely considered the far and away #1 conference tournament in the country and the #2 college basketball event in the country behind the NCAA Tournament. It's not just about the auto bid (which is rarely relevant), it's about the spectacle. We may not have the overall league quality anymore to maintain the #2 prestige ranking, but we still have the history and the Garden and we love to make this event into everything we can. If SHU were to run the bracket at MSG this week, all the failures of this regular season would instantly be forgiven and forgotten.

This logic makes an assumption that any Big East championship is an end in itself for everyone, when for many, it's a means to an end. If I had to choose between a top 4 seed in the big tournament with a BET loss and a double digit seed in the big tournament with a BET championship, I would choose the former. It indicates the season was more enjoyable and it sets a team up for a greater chance of success.

I get this spectacle of the BET, and I want Xavier to win it, but i care a lot more about the NCAA Tournament. If that includes a BET championship, great, but I'm not going to commit to wanting the BET championship more than the regular season championship without any conditions.

[XUFan09]

Nova is the champ because everyone agreed on the metrics.

It was pretty weak of Nova to be the first team to cancel a game back in December when everyone was healthy and then not actually make any effort to make up games later in the year, and it was pretty weak of the conference to start out with extra time built in late in the year but not actually encourage anyone to use it to get games in. And it's almost a certainty that if Jay Wright had said "gee, we'd sure like to have a chance to makeup these games" then the conference would have bent over backwards to do it. But he clearly wanted to no part of going to UConn, and the conference wouldn't want to make him uncomfortable.

It's amazing that Creighton actually got every single game in and is the only team in the conference to do so. Hopefully that pays off with Creighton having had more games to be ready to go in NY and the NCAAT instead of being more worn out. If X beats Butler it'll be interesting to see how the freshest team/team that played the least vs. the team that played the most goes.

On the subject of the thread, BE Awards, POY SHOULD be between Gillespie and Zegarowksi. Bouknight should not even be eligible given he missed half of his team's conference games. He's the most talented individual and likely the highest draft pick -- but not the POY in conference this year. I'd give it to Zegarowksi because he can single-handedly change the trajectory of games way more than Gillespie seems to ever do.

Bishop should seriously be given strong consideration as most improved. He arguably should have been considered for one of the all conference teams with his consistency and numbers against all other bigs over the course of the season. He arguably outplayed opposing bigs in virtually every conference game, as an "undersized" five and was just consistent all year.

And Ballock should have been on one of the teams, too. He's the best shooter in the conference, but he is also so valuable from a passing and spacing point of view that it's borderline criminal to not put him on any of the teams.

Uh, Xavier lost 40 days of practice this season. Their conditioning is quite simply not on the same level as most teams in the conference. It's really misleading to call them the "freshest team." Least games played, sure, but definitely not freshest.

[Hall2012]

So I guess based on the "regular season champ" logic, getting the #1 overall seed for the NCAA Tournament is a bigger accomplishment than winning it.

Reality regarding the Big East Tournament is that we take great pride in the old BET being widely considered the far and away #1 conference tournament in the country and the #2 college basketball event in the country behind the NCAA Tournament. It's not just about the auto bid (which is rarely relevant), it's about the spectacle. We may not have the overall league quality anymore to maintain the #2 prestige ranking, but we still have the history and the Garden and we love to make this event into everything we can. If SHU were to run the bracket at MSG this week, all the failures of this regular season would instantly be forgiven and forgotten.

This logic makes an assumption that any Big East championship is an end in itself for everyone, when for many, it's a means to an end. If I had to choose between a top 4 seed in the big tournament with a BET loss and a double digit seed in the big tournament with a BET championship, I would choose the former. It indicates the season was more enjoyable and it sets a team up for a greater chance of success.

I get this spectacle of the BET, and I want Xavier to win it, but i care a lot more about the NCAA Tournament. If that includes a BET championship, great, but I'm not going to commit to wanting the BET championship more than the regular season championship without any conditions.

Well that's a separate matter entirely. I don't share your opinion that I would agree to forgo both Big East Championships in exchange for a guaranteed 4 seed in the NCAA's, but you're certainly entitled to it. That's probably just a matter of me having a greater respect for the Big East awards due to my school's long tenure in the conference. I see 3 major awards in play for Big East schools every year and I think they're all absolutely worth winning, though in terms of presige I would order them: 1-NCAA Tournament, 2 Big East Tournament, 3 Big East Regular Season. That's all I'm saying.

Regarding the 2 Big East ones, I'm not so much worried about the regular season "setting you up" better for the NCAA tournament because while it makes sense in theory, if you go back through historic results you'll find that it has not been the case in actuality. I see the Big East tournament more akin to professional playoffs - winning that means you end the Big East season as the last team standing. The NCAA's are then a separate competition, similar to the Champions League if you're a soccer fan by chance.

[GumbyDamnit!]

.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Nova is the champ because everyone agreed on the metrics.

It was pretty weak of Nova to be the first team to cancel a game back in December when everyone was healthy and then not actually make any effort to make up games later in the year, and it was pretty weak of the conference to start out with extra time built in late in the year but not actually encourage anyone to use it to get games in. And it's almost a certainty that if Jay Wright had said "gee, we'd sure like to have a chance to makeup these games" then the conference would have bent over backwards to do it. But he clearly wanted to no part of going to UConn, and the conference wouldn't want to make him uncomfortable.

It's amazing that Creighton actually got every single game in and is the only team in the conference to do so. Hopefully that pays off with Creighton having had more games to be ready to go in NY and the NCAAT instead of being more worn out. If X beats Butler it'll be interesting to see how the freshest team/team that played the least vs. the team that played the most goes.

On the subject of the thread, BE Awards, POY SHOULD be between Gillespie and Zegarowksi. Bouknight should not even be eligible given he missed half of his team's conference games. He's the most talented individual and likely the highest draft pick -- but not the POY in conference this year. I'd give it to Zegarowksi because he can single-handedly change the trajectory of games way more than Gillespie seems to ever do.

Bishop should seriously be given strong consideration as most improved. He arguably should have been considered for one of the all conference teams with his consistency and numbers against all other bigs over the course of the season. He arguably outplayed opposing bigs in virtually every conference game, as an "undersized" five and was just consistent all year.

And Ballock should have been on one of the teams, too. He's the best shooter in the conference, but he is also so valuable from a passing and spacing point of view that it's borderline criminal to not put him on any of the teams.

So honest question.... had Nova played that UConn game, without Bouknight back from his injury, and Nova with a full, healthy team, what do you think would have been a realistic outcome? Keep in mind that in the 5 game stretch around that 1/28 date, UConn was 1-4, beating Butler and losing to SJU (H), @ CU, SHU (H) and @PC. So do you feel confident UConn as a team was in a good place then?

[Novachap]

Nova is the champ because everyone agreed on the metrics.

It was pretty weak of Nova to be the first team to cancel a game back in December when everyone was healthy and then not actually make any effort to make up games later in the year, and it was pretty weak of the conference to start out with extra time built in late in the year but not actually encourage anyone to use it to get games in. And it's almost a certainty that if Jay Wright had said "gee, we'd sure like to have a chance to makeup these games" then the conference would have bent over backwards to do it. But he clearly wanted to no part of going to UConn, and the conference wouldn't want to make him uncomfortable.

It's amazing that Creighton actually got every single game in and is the only team in the conference to do so. Hopefully that pays off with Creighton having had more games to be ready to go in NY and the NCAAT instead of being more worn out. If X beats Butler it'll be interesting to see how the freshest team/team that played the least vs. the team that played the most goes.

On the subject of the thread, BE Awards, POY SHOULD be between Gillespie and Zegarowksi. Bouknight should not even be eligible given he missed half of his team's conference games. He's the most talented individual and likely the highest draft pick -- but not the POY in conference this year. I'd give it to Zegarowksi because he can single-handedly change the trajectory of games way more than Gillespie seems to ever do.

Bishop should seriously be given strong consideration as most improved. He arguably should have been considered for one of the all conference teams with his consistency and numbers against all other bigs over the course of the season. He arguably outplayed opposing bigs in virtually every conference game, as an "undersized" five and was just consistent all year.

And Ballock should have been on one of the teams, too. He's the best shooter in the conference, but he is also so valuable from a passing and spacing point of view that it's borderline criminal to not put him on any of the teams.

Wow, interesting take. Yeah, because Nova has always ducked a challenge. Get a grip..

[Django]

I made my bed and now have to sleep in it. CB in 2022!!!!