Latest rumors on C7

[QueRico]

Every argument I hear in favor of Creighton sounds great - until I look @ a map.
That being said, how are people pushing for Gonzaga if location is a problem w/ Creighton?
I'm not comparing men's basketball success here, but essentially everything else about the schools.
I'm biased against large public institutions as members, so I'd prefer not bringing in VCU.
For all the talk about a conference of "like" institutions, it's a bunch of hooey if they do get an invite.

[Jet915]

Creighton is probably another 1 hour extra of flight time from Saint Louis. Is that really going to be a barrier for admission? I can understand Gonzaga being a geography issue because it is like 3 time zones from the east coast but Creighton is only 1 and is relatively close to Saint Louis, Chicago and Milwaukee.

[ChiFlyer]

The Creighton fans are getting pretty irrational. From the comparisons that the A-10 and MVC being equal to the statements that Creighton is media relevant are pretty absurd. Creighton may get in over Dayton and SLU. Depending on how the decision makers set up priorities, Dayton, SLU, Creighton, and VCU could all be included or excluded. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. But Xavier and Butler are the two clear choices. Then you are picking between 4 schools (maybe some dark horses) for 3 spots. But Creighton is in no way head and shoulders above the other three schools. They are a big fish in a small pond and have proven multiple times over the last 10 years that they are an easy out in the NCAA tournament. (like the rest of MVC.) Feel free to look it up, its a fact. Chicago is 500 miles from Omaha. Chicago is 700 miles from DC. St. Louis is 400 miles from Omaha. If you include Creighton, you are stretching the conference way out for a program that has one NCAA win in the last ten years. If they get it in its not unwarranted, their program is solid, but not special. I'm tired of the MVC folks being unable to look at the situation objectively. We aren't just talking about the basketball team on charter flights, we are talking about every other sport going an extra 500 miles by bus (24 hours round trip.)

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out, but lets not artificially inflate the strengths of our respective programs and ignore the deficiencies.

[whiteandblue77]

The Creighton fans are getting pretty irrational. But Creighton is in no way head and shoulders above the other three schools.

Where on this board did any Creighton fan say anything remotely like that? Your post is irrational.

Every argument I hear in favor of Creighton sounds great - until I look @ a map.
That being said, how are people pushing for Gonzaga if location is a problem w/ Creighton?
I'm not comparing men's basketball success here, but essentially everything else about the schools.
I'm biased against large public institutions as members, so I'd prefer not bringing in VCU.
For all the talk about a conference of "like" institutions, it's a bunch of hooey if they do get an invite.

+1 and props for getting a "hooey" in there

[thefish7]

They are a big fish in a small pond and have proven multiple times over the last 10 years that they are an easy out in the NCAA tournament. (like the rest of MVC.) Feel free to look it up, its a fact.

CU has been an easy out in the tournament, the MVC has not. A10 teams not named Xavier and Temple (and ignoring Butler and VCU) have an 8-15 record in the NCAA in the last ten years, one Elite 8 for SJU and a Sweet 16 for Richmond contribute 5 of those wins. The MVC teams not named Creighton have a 9-15 record with one Sweet 16 each for Bradley, Nothern Iowa, Southern Illinois, and Wichita St contributing 8 of the wins.

[ChiFlyer]

Temple has won one game in in the NCAA in the last ten years. So lets be clear with your comparison..... When you take the best performing team from the A-10 (Xavier), the rest of the A-10 still outperforms the MVC. The MVC has gotten 6 bids in the last five years. (1 bid League). The A-10 has gotten 16 bids. (3 bid league) The MVC has 3 wins vs the A-10's 14 wins. The A-10 has won 47% of their NCAA games in the last 5 years vs 33% for the MVC. Xavier is clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the A-10, but Dayton, St.Louis, Temple and Richmond all have NCAA wins in the last 5 years. The conferences are not the same, unless you take away Xavier, then they are comparable. If the the A-10 losses Butler, VCU, and Xavier then the conferences will be comparable even if Creighton stays in the MVC.

[Vegas Jim]

IMO,
If the C7 concludes Creighton could be an asset to the proposed new league, Creighton should consider it.
However, if the C7 feels Creighton would be only a sacrifice choice, Creighton should either stay in the MVC or look for a more hospitable league association.
It's never a good thing to be accepted into anything by begging. Let the C7 figure out what they want to be, and how they want to get there.
Creighton has a very solid program in several major sports and their efforts have produced a great degree of success. They have much to offer, but if they are not really wanted, forget the C7 and wish it well.

[yorost]

Do you really think begging is going to factor into invitations? This is a business process, not an elementary playground.

[Bluejay]

I'm biased against large public institutions as members, so I'd prefer not bringing in VCU.

I'm the same way. I think that having one school that is substantially different from all of the other members of the conference is going to be a problem at some point. I think that is aggravated when the one school has a separate mission, substantially different enrollment and remarkably weaker admission standards.

I get VCU's basketball success. My concern has nothing to do with that. While conferences are ostensibly for athletics, the more alike the schools, their culture and their respective interests are, the greater the long term stability of the conference. I would hope that with everything the BE 7 schools have been through, stability would be a legitimate concern.

[thefish7]

Temple has won one game in in the NCAA in the last ten years. So lets be clear with your comparison..... When you take the best performing team from the A-10 (Xavier), the rest of the A-10 still outperforms the MVC. The MVC has gotten 6 bids in the last five years. (1 bid League). The A-10 has gotten 16 bids. (3 bid league) The MVC has 3 wins vs the A-10's 14 wins. The A-10 has won 47% of their NCAA games in the last 5 years vs 33% for the MVC. Xavier is clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the A-10, but Dayton, St.Louis, Temple and Richmond all have NCAA wins in the last 5 years. The conferences are not the same, unless you take away Xavier, then they are comparable. If the the A-10 losses Butler, VCU, and Xavier then the conferences will be comparable even if Creighton stays in the MVC.

Is it a five year comparison or a ten year comparison? The argument seems to keep shifting focus. This year the A10 is going to have many bids, it's undeniable. The MVC will send 2-3 teams, so I guess we're back to the multi-bid status we had before the five year cut off (2 x 2 bids, a 3 bid, and a 4 bid league thos years). The part I'm rejecting is that the MVC over ten years was an easy out, and that the CU is the only fish in the pond. You seem, I think, at the end there to completely agree with me, so maybe we're debating nothing. To me, the A10 is a conference with a great team, a handful of decent teams, and then a bunch of garbage. It also added a great program and a very good program this year (that it seems like it will lose). The MVC on the other hand is a conference with several strong programs, none of which are great and a distinct lack of epic trash programs.